View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0016700phpList 3 applicationHTML Email Supportpublic26-03-13 14:25
Status newResolutionopen 
Product Version2.11.7 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0016700: blank messages on hotmail
Descriptionwith a particular construction, hotmail subscribers are receiving empty messages.

this happens when pasting from Word into phpList

When pasting from Word, a lot of extraneous code is added at the top of the message. This code is made visible when clicking the “Source” button.

The code has several conditional statements in the markup for including styles based on some “MSO” version, like this:

<!–[if !mso]> <![endif]–>

<!–[if gte mso 9]> <![endif]–>

<!–[if gte mso 10]> <![endif]–>

Obviously the MSO is some system versioning of some Microsoft rendering engine or something. But for some reason Microsoft’s own Hotmail is incapable of processing it. The mails all display fine in Yahoo, Gmail and any other email application I have tried. Seems rather ironic.
Steps To Reproducethe main problem is that I don't have Word, or even Windows, so I can't reproduce. Tester needed to check this, and then to figure out whether it's resolved.
TagsNo tags attached.


related to 0016546 resolvedmichiel phpList 3 application Characters pasted in FCKeditor come out wrong 
related to 0015414 resolvedmichiel phpList 3 plugins Use ckeditor instead of FCKEditor 



24-10-12 09:34


ckeditor.jpg (65,398 bytes)
ckeditor.jpg (65,398 bytes)


24-10-12 09:53

updater   ~0051772

It's a typical fckeditor issue. The extra markups come from MS word. There is a "paste from word" plugin in FCKeditor (see image attached). It can be a quick solution. Another solution is to save the .doc/.docx as .rtf and copy/paste content, this will remove extra markups.
We can also consider to integrate to phplist an input filter that cleans up HTML by removing extra markups.(see


24-10-12 11:08

manager   ~0051773

Yes, I know about the Paste from Word, and the button is there in the editor. I must admit that I don't know whether these people are using this button. (I'll ask a few)

The content is there, so either the Paste From Word doesn't work, or stopped working due to a newer version of Word, or they are not using it. But the blank messages are only there for Hotmail users, everyone else receives it fine.

Yes, I think integrating an HTML cleanup thing is a good idea. However, I'd make it optional, as I don't want to touch peoples HTML if I don't need to.

Main problem remains that I can't replicate this due to not having Word, which makes it hard to fix it, as I wouldn't be able to test whether code changes fixed it.

What I can do is add a Warning when the MSO codes are detected to say that the mails may show blank on hotmail, but I'd like to be able to say what to do about it, and give instructions for "dummies". Telling dummies to click "Source" and strip the code won't work. Telling them to use the Paste from Word would.


24-10-12 11:31

updater   ~0051774

Here is a code snippet with original and generated text from copy/pasting.
it's a simple lipsum paragraph that can be useful to test if you don't have MSWord.


24-10-12 11:52

manager   ~0051775

thanks. The thing is, when I copy and paste that on my Ubuntu system, it simply gets copied as is, and the code is showing as you see there. I guess I'll try on the Windows virtualbox.


24-10-12 11:57

updater   ~0051776

you have to paste the generated code in fckeditor in "source" mode (as show here ) then toggle to WYSIWYG mode to see the renderer output in fckeditor


24-10-12 12:10

manager   ~0051777

Hmm, yes, but does that replicate "Paste from Word" behaviour? I can do the following, and that results in clean text and source, but it doesn't convince me that I've replicated the problem.

1. copy the code
2. go to "source"
3. paste the code
4. go back to wysiwyg
5. selectAll - cut
6. Paste from Word
7. Clean text in editor

In that process there are a few places where it may be cleaned, and not necessarily the Paste from Word action.


24-10-12 12:15

updater   ~0051778

Last edited: 24-10-12 12:18

View 2 revisions

You are right! I think the better way to replicate this behavior is to setup a virtual windows machine. It will be a necessary loss of time ;)


24-10-12 12:36

manager   ~0051779

ok, downloading the 60 day Word trial now. That's what I was trying to avoid :-(


24-10-12 12:42

updater   ~0051780

The good thing with VMs and trial version is that you can take a snapshot today and reload it every Day+59 ;)


24-10-12 12:52

manager   ~0051781

ah, good one. Never thought of that (I guess I never needed it). I'll make a "Word VM" just in case there's another Microsoft "bug to code around" in the future.


24-10-12 19:56

manager   ~0051782

took ages to download Word and now I can't replicate the problem. This is Word 2010. Could it be that it only happens with an older version of Word?


24-10-12 21:53

updater   ~0051783

I'm using Word 2007 and I think it's the same issue on 2010. This are the steps to reproduce it:
1- copy text from Ms Word
2- open ckeditor/fckedior in WYSIWYG mode
3- paste text using Ctrl+V
5- select "source" mode in ckeditor and you will see the extra markups.

Hope this will help


25-10-12 18:28

manager   ~0051786

Yes, that's what I'm doing, but the extra markup is not appearing for me. Will try a bit more. I'm doing this in a Windows 7 VM, would that make a difference? Do I need to use a Vista or other VM? That it's to do with the clipboard format of the OS or something?


29-10-12 10:53

updater   ~0051803

May be your copy is cleaned by your Linux clipboard. Did you test this behavior entirely in your VM? (CKeditor in your VM's browser)


29-10-12 11:33

manager   ~0051804

yes, I'm doing all in the VM. I've asked someone who had this happen to give me their version numbers of OS, Browser and Word. No answer yet, but will update once I have those.

They did tell me they use ctrl-V to paste from Word.

In my (Windows7) VM, when pasting with ctrl-V I get a message from the editor saying "It looks like you are pasting from Word, do you want to clean it first", with an OK and Cancel. Interestingly enough, both OK and Cancel clean it. I presume the message comes from the FCKeditor.


30-10-12 19:28

manager   ~0051810


19-03-13 20:34

reporter   ~0051958

We have experienced this. We think the problem is that phplist is stripping out part of the closing tag of a conditional comment - specifically "[endif]" - but leaving the opening tag intact. So in effect, the client is left seeing a comment tag "<!--" instead, and ignores the rest of the content, resulting in blank email. We can reproduce in Outlook 2000-2003, Lotus Notes 8/8.5, Hotmail,, Windows phone. We have tested this same code outside of phplist, and all these clients do render correctly (even with the MSO conditional tags included) as long as the closing tag is correct.

        <!--[if gte mso 9]>
            <v:background fill="t">
                   <v:fill type="tile" src="" />

changes to this after being sent through phplist:

        <!--[if gte mso 9]>
            <v:background fill="t">
                   <v:fill type="tile" src="" />


21-03-13 12:22

manager   ~0051962

that might be on 2.10, but in 2.11 phpList no longer replaces placeholders it doesn't know about

The real fix is to strip all of the Word crap


21-03-13 19:08

reporter   ~0051964

You are right that we are using 2.10. But be cautious- we are not pasting in "word crap" - we are specifically using conditional CSS to allow compatibility in certain clients. We wouldn't want any email software to blindly prevent that.


21-03-13 21:35

manager   ~0051965

ah, that sounds interesting. It might be best to try 2.11.7
although hopefully it won't be long until 2.11.8, so you could wait for that.


26-03-13 14:25

manager   ~0051986

Even though this is a fairly serious issue, I can't replicate it, and I really need someone with Windows to take this on. Also, an editor upgrade/change may resolve it. For now, I need to mark it as "future"